David Saks: Is the Realtor® Brand A National Conspiracy That Restricts Free Trade, Desecrates Anti-Trust Laws & Plunders It's Members ?

David Saks - Real Estate Broker - The Real Estate Mart of Tennessee, Inc. - 4040 North Watkins-Suite #4 - Memphis, Tennessee 38127 - Phone (901) 357-4663

Is the Realtor® Brand A National Conspiracy That Restricts Free Trade, Desecrates Anti-Trust Laws & Plunders It's Members ?

Some believe that it is.

Why have hundreds of thousands of NAR members quit ?


"The NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF REALTORS® has seen its membership decline 21 percent from its peak of 1.35 million members in 2006 to 1.06 million in 2010. The numbers will likely be down in 2011 as well."
Stacey Moncrieff, editor in chief for REALTOR® Magazine and managing director of publishing for the NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF REALTORS®.
Realtor Magazine April 2011

It's 2013 !

Are Licensees seeking work with non-NAR affiliated brokerages or quitting because they can't find non affilation?

Are non-NAR affiliated MLS's succeeding ?

Are REALTORS® losing credibility, ground and favor with the general public ?

Are REALTORS® being hammered by destructive media content and NAR portrayed as dangerous to consumers and the national economy ?

Do we awaken to press releases and comments that blackball and question the trustworthiness and believability of REALTORS®, everyday ?

Is NAR a predator pounding it's members for more and providing less ?

Some believe that it is.

The United States vs. The National Association of Realtors

David Saks

Time&Temp Memphis

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Comment balloon 127 commentsDavid Saks • February 10 2013 08:13AM


I don't have an answer to the question that you asked, but the music was great. Thank you for sharing with us.

Posted by Joe Petrowsky, Your Mortgage Consultant for Life (Mortgage Consultant, Right Trac Financial Group, Inc. NMLS # 2709) about 8 years ago

David -- not sure about the reason, but part of the loss could be those who finally got tired of paying dues, when they were trying to do the job in a part time manner, and it just didn't make economic sense to keep paying the dues anymore.


Posted by Steven Cook (No Longer Processing Mortgages.) about 8 years ago

The answer to me is no. Why can't folks like teacher or doctors or lawyers or realtors have their own dues paying association. Why have so many left? As Bill Clinton said , Its the economy

Posted by Charlie Ragonesi, Homes - Big Canoe, Jasper, North Georgia Pros (AllMountainRealty.com) about 8 years ago

NO, in fact i do believe it is to the consumers benifit.  Those that are no longer around and complaining are the the ones not happy with the restrictions of our information.  I believe that we need to be better stewards of the information or we will be the ones losingout.

Posted by Vern Eaton, Realtor 651-674-7449 about 8 years ago

What is your role, benefit from the blue and gold "R" ? Works for me. But thw two way feeling that a little guy in the hinterland can feel communication is key. Sometimes feel fed information to regurgitate and that there is a little disconnect.

Posted by Andrew Mooers | 207.532.6573, Northern Maine Real Estate-Aroostook County Broker (MOOERS REALTY) about 8 years ago

I'd have to concur with Cindy and ask, where did you derive your information? What was your source? The fact that membership is down is nothing new, especially during lean times.

Posted by Mike Mayer (Mike Mayer, Broker/Owner - i List For Less Realty, LLC) about 8 years ago

I believe the "Realtor brand" and NAR are a "conspiracy" to infuse the profession with a code of conduct and ethical behavior.

Posted by Margo Currie (Exit 1 Stop Realty) about 8 years ago

To all,

NAR dues were as follows: $30 to legislative/regulatory advisory, $15 to member relationship building, $10 state and local association services, $6 to technology and economic research, $6 to publications, $5 to commercial/international alliances, $4 to legal policy enforcement, and $4 to customer service; $80 in total.   NAR membership dues went up 50 percent to $120, according to AgentGenius.  

The recent dues increase sounded like an attempt to many to recover NAR defense money lost in battling the Department of Defense prosecution and accusation that NAR violated Federal Antitrust Laws with the NAR Virtual Office Website Policy, and NAR slammed members with a price hike in membership fees. Go figure....a loss in annual revenue of 24 million dollars to NAR because of nearly 300 thousand resignations from NAR in recent days.
These Virtual Office policies allowed participants-whether they were individual one-person brokers or large regional companies-to limit access to some or all of the MLS data by individual brokers (whether they were brokers operating solely on the Internet or local competitors). In 2005, this prompted the Department of Justice to file an antitrust lawsuit against NAR alleging its MLS rules in regard to these types of limitations on the display of data. The Department of Justice said that this was the product of a conspiracy by NAR executives to restrain trade by excluding brokers who used the Internet to operate differently from traditional bricks-and-mortar brokers.   The antitrust lawsuit was settled in May 2008. The agreement mandates that all Multiple Listing Service systems allow access to Internet-based competitors. NAR will be required to treat all online brokers the same as traditional brokers and cannot exclude them from membership because they do not have a traditional business model. NAR admitted no wrongdoing, and it paid neither fines nor damages as part of the deal. The settlement will not be official until a federal judge formally approves it, General counsel of the NAR believes that the settlement will have no effect on the commission paid by the general public, but a business professor at Western Michigan University predicted that the increased competition would cause a 25 to 50 percent decrease in commissions.   Another major anticompetitive practice is supported (indirectly) by various state laws which prohibit the "sharing" of commissions with unlicensed individuals. In broad interpretations, this is deemed to prevent a buyers' agent from providing a credit to his or her buyers from commissions received. Currently, there are 10 states where real estate agents and brokers are barred from offering homebuyers or sellers cash rebates or gifts of any kind with a cash value more than $25.Various Realtors(R) in such states have successfully contested this interpretation in states which now allow the practice (Notably, Patrick Lea a Realtor(R) in Ohio, and numerous agents in Kentucky). The Kentucky case was ultimately tried with the United States Department of Justice as the plaintiff and the Kentucky Real Estate Commission as the defendant. http://www.justice.gov/atr/cases/f210200/210274.htm      

Was the dues increase a national attempt to gain funds from the existing membership because members are resigning enmasse' and NAR's bank account is dwindling ? 

Be vigilant when the hand of any organization thrusts itself into your pocket, for any amount, and even more so when that thrust is political in nature and may not represent the needs of all.  

If you create a party through collective stength, then I would urge those who support a party of Realtor's, aka, The Realtor Party, to demonstrate loyalty and vote along Realtor party lines if the candidates and issues that the Realtor Party supports also support the Realtor Party.

Otherwise these candidates are probably unfamiliar with your philosophy, your agenda and purpose, your issues and your vote. Therefore, your vote is meaningless and the forty dollar increase becomes a burdensome tax on the national membership.
The passage of a dues increase along political party lines will continue a wave of resignations from NAR

The dues increase vote should've been conducted on a National Scale with all members being allowed one vote.

The dues increase crippled NAR.

Thousands resigned.

Isn't that what taxation without representation is all about ?

NAR admitted that they've lost nearly 300 thousand members already which equates to an annual revenue loss of 24 million bucks. Thousands of real estate agents are looking for non-affiliated brokerages. Thousands will continue to seek shelter under the umbrella of non-affiliation.

It's a new day.

Posted by David Saks ((retired)) about 8 years ago


  •     NAR boasts about "Ethics", yet they are proven Liars and Manipulators of Housing Data.


  •     NAR Leadership sold lifetime rights to the domain name "Realtor.com" to a 3rd party, and that domain is now used to Extort Money from Real Estate Agents for "Featured Listings" and other "upgrades".   Somebody at NAR either took a Bribe to sell that name, or else they were STUPID...  Either choice is a Loss.   


  •     The American Housing Market is in Ruins.  So much for NAR's Lobbying Skills.


  •      With no input from the Members, NAR added "sexual orientation" to the Code of Ethics Article 10.  Since NAR failed to define "sexual orientation", that includes bestiality, incest, pedophilia, and any other preferred sexual orientation.   Any Realtor who refuses to work with such persons is in violation of the COE. 
Posted by Fred Griffin Tallahassee Real Estate, Licensed Florida Real Estate Broker (Fred Griffin Real Estate) about 8 years ago

Lots to digest here.  Good, thought-provoking post.  I have to agree with Fred #10.  Sad, but true.

Posted by Christine Hooks, Celebrating 25 Years in Real Estate! (Pino Agency) about 8 years ago

Sorry I also think it has more to do with the economy.  I do not think Realtors have as bad a rap as you indicate.

Posted by Tim Lorenz, 949 874-2247 (TIM LORENZ - Elite Home Sales Team) about 8 years ago

Wow.  Lots said here.  I will have to read through this.  I am aware membership is down but there are a lot of reasons for that.

Posted by Stella Barbour, Principal Broker, Serving Virginia and Maryland (NoVa Brokers LLC) about 8 years ago

Fred, Chris, Tim, Stella, many believe that NAR is "old school", and that the brand is dead now that hundreds of thousands of agents are seeking non-affiliated brokerages to work for. I know people who would absolutely refuse to engage in agency with REALTORS® because they don't trust them.

Many also believe that real estate agents , not REALTORS®, are working together to create fair and balanced standards, practices, and policies that do not give the impression of limiting competition and choices in real estate services that are representative of what REALTORS® claim they stand for.

Posted by David Saks ((retired)) about 8 years ago

I agree that NAR has failed to perform in the area of enforcing and promoting members' professional image to which they continue to give lip service.  If anything, they are a liability to the image of real estate professionals who are their members. 

David, from the tone of your post, I am figuring that you are in favor of leaving the NAR.  What surprises me though is that you still claim to be a REALTOR®.  Why have you not taken any action personally?

Posted by Mike Carlier, More opinions than you want to hear about. about 8 years ago

I'll make my decision at the end of this year, Mike.

The unaffilliated brokerages in this area are becoming the most successful. 

A new MLS was created for unaffiliated listings.

The National Association of REALTORS® seems to constantly be at war with the Federal government and consumer advocacy groups because of allegations that the residential real estate brokerage industry restricts and blocks choices, not just for consumers, but for members and unaffiliated agents and brokerages, as well, even though NAR claims that it's goal is to protect the consumer.

NAR is a political agenda, period.

The mandatory assessment of 40 dollars for the Political Party Survival Initiative is pure garbage and proves it.

One local NAR board requires that their members sign a declaration that they won't sell residential property within the boards listing area if they refuse to purchase and use the MLS product that the board provides it's membership, under penalty of suspension or revocation of membership, which includes the member brokerage.

Isn't that a criminal act that violates anti-trust laws and restricts free trade ? 

I believe that it is.

What do you think ?

I wonder how many other NAR local associations do the same thing ?

Posted by David Saks ((retired)) about 8 years ago

Hi David,  I've always enjoyed your edgy style but having some trouble getting past the huge numbers being thrown about as to resignations, etc.

Posted by Bill Gillhespy, Fort Myers Beach Realtor, Fort Myers Beach Agent - Homes & Condos (16 Sunview Blvd) about 8 years ago

For you, Bill, and Cindy #6....

"The NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF REALTORS® has seen its membership decline 21 percent from its peak of 1.35 million members in 2006 to 1.06 million in 2010. The numbers will likely be down in 2011 as well."

Stacey Moncrieff, editor in chief for REALTOR® Magazine and managing director of publishing for the NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF REALTORS®.

Realtor Magazine April 2011

290,000 resignations as of that startling and predictable revelation a year ago.

Safe to say many more by now because of the questionable dues increase.

Click here for more.

Posted by David Saks ((retired)) about 8 years ago

Ditto Fred * I have not physically been to our association office in 2 years.  I have not met our new AE who has been on the job for a year.  I do not take their CE classes.....more and more of my profession is available elsewhere and at less cost.


Posted by Wallace S. Gibson, CPM, LandlordWhisperer (Gibson Management Group, Ltd.) about 8 years ago

From my personal experience many clients don't know the difference between a Realtor and a Agent.  With that being said what kinda credibility does it really give us.  Its up to us the Realtor to provide the public the difference.  I do agree that something has to change a fee to say you are going to abide by ethics is a little crazy.

Posted by Derek Whiteside, Waterfront & Military Relocation Specialist (Rose & Womble Realty) about 8 years ago

I don't know about other local boards. If you don't belong to NAR,no MLS for you in Houston.

Posted by Mike Morrison (Will & Will Real Estate Brokers, The Woodlands, Texas) about 8 years ago

Wallace, Derek, Mike, thanks for your comments. 

The REALTOR® brand has become an unnecesary financial burden and meaningless to thousands of real estate agents who are seeking non-affiliated brokerages.

No Realtor Association can do anything for you that any non-affiliated agent or brokerage can't do.

I challenge any Realtor to dispute this fact.

We are all governed by the same laws and nothing in the law says that you have to join NAR.

Can you be denied the right to sell residential real estate if you belong to NAR and a local or state NAR-affiliated board and brokerage and refuse to use the MLS product of that NAR-affiliated board ?

Even when there's a competing, non-NAR MLS that provides a great service for a fraction of the cost ?

One NAR-affiliated board that I know of has this insidious policy !!! 

Can you believe it ? It's true. And the Federal Trade Commission and Department of Justice have done nothing about it, and it's been a local NAR-board policy for years.

Sounds like your right to choose has been violated in addition to your right to exercise free trade.

NAR - unaffiliated real estate agents have the power to address the laws and challenge their respective state or federal legislation as well or better than any Realtor Association.

NAR's jurisprudence engineers will create sophisticated legal controversy to cloud the need to recover millions in lost revenue because of the hundreds of thousands of resignations, such as the 40 dollar Political Party Survival Initiative dues increase.

I thought that mandatory political contributions were illegal in America.

Did NAR rewrite the law to suit it's agenda ?

Posted by David Saks ((retired)) about 8 years ago

Interesting and certainly controversial post. It seems to me that a discussion about issues is always healthy. One of my major concerns is that NAR organizations have become inbred by virtue of their polity. There is a lack of creative thinking and the flexibility to adapt to tomorrow.

It is as simple and as challenging as the business philosophy Robert Quinn captured in his excellent book, "Building The Bridge As You Walk On It." It seems to me the reality in which we now exist is always moving forward. And yet there is inherent in the NAR structure a prevailing sentiment to hang onto tradition. Corporate inbreeding is as detrimental to corporate health as it is to biological health.

I think that market forces will ultimately prevail. My money is bet on open and free markets. NAR does not have a positive history in those regards.


Posted by Larry about 8 years ago

Larry, I completely agree that corporate inbreeding ruins the business model, and at the same time irreparably destroys itself while the confidence of it's former or current supporting delegation and community decreases in large volume. The Realtor brand is dead by this measure and most certainly verified, attested and born witness by the recent resignations of hundreds of thousands of members.

Many thanks for your great comment.

Posted by David Saks ((retired)) about 8 years ago

I'm really tired of escalating fees with no "real" added value.  There are many arguments for and against but if it were possible to have MLS without all the crap and fees I'd be first in line to sign up.  Organizations just become bothersome hinderance to most practicioners.

Posted by Ralph Janisch ABR CRS Broker, Selling Northwest Houston to good people like you! (Janisch & Co.) about 8 years ago

The local NAR affiliated board lost half it's members in the last four years. It had around 5700 in 2007.

Now it has around 3000, Durango.

Posted by David Saks ((retired)) about 8 years ago

NAR is playing fast and loose with its members' proprietary information... spreading it throughout the internet and causing a dilution of potential clients as they look elsewhere for home information.

Posted by Cameron Novak, Featured Corona Real Estate Agent Team (The Homefinding Center) about 8 years ago

If we all know there is a problem, then what is the solution? 

I think there needs to be a re-evaluation of the structure. Why, given the fact that agents are independent contractors, is the business anchored to a broker? The majority of agents are responsible for their own marketing. The agent builds his own network. In the evolution of the Internet the agent is the focus of the potential buyer or seller. Few look for a magic in a firm name. 

It is a fact that most top producing agents rise above the broker's efforts in marketing and determine a way to build a distinction, a unique selling proposition. 

One other consideration should be to remove the inherent 'right' of an agent to co-op. Give the listing agent the right to protect the client. Return the control of the real value of the listing to the agent. That value is protected by the obligation the agent has to the client - protect the asset the client is giving the agent to liquidate. IMO there are many times when that is compromised simply by the rule. It is similar to being in a kindergarten class and the teacher requires sharing. However I may have a toy that requires responsible behavior in order to protect the safety and integrity of the toy. The other student and myself would have a 'burden' to negotiate and come to some definitive "yes I will" or "no I won't." Some would argue that this would compromise a basic tenet of Realtor value and meaning. I disagree. I think instead it would 'force' a professional responsibility to mature and respect the value of an asset of my client. 

Regardless, I think that the system is broke and there is a presumptive defense that "we know what is best for a client" and "we know what is best for the market." Seems rather obvious that those defenses continue to weaken.

These are random but critical thoughts to move the discussion forward. I refuse to swallow the pill and accept the generally accepted rules of practice just because it is the traditional way and empowers an existing power structure whether local or national. Screw that! :)




Posted by Larry about 8 years ago

Maybe that'll change with the migration towards non-affiliation, Cameron.

Posted by David Saks ((retired)) about 8 years ago

We probably need an organization that upholds and promotes our collective professional image.  NAR has proved that it is not the organization that will deliver.

Posted by Mike Carlier, More opinions than you want to hear about. about 8 years ago

The solution is the freedom to choose, which appears to be denied NAR-affiliated agents and imposed by NAR boards, Larry, now that products exist that are more cost efficient which encourage fair commerce and fewer restrictions, thereby allowing licensees a bigger window of opportunity for success. The move towards non-affiliation is a start for thousands of agents in this day and age. Many of the traditional brokerage models of the last century are dead with the exception of those management models which are essential that provide understanding and knowledge of the principles of selling and leadership. Good strategy helps to create solid advantages within this turbulent market which has become an extremely challenging field of play. Today's large real estate offices are functionally organized and specialize in more than just sales. They include property management, insurance, accounting and much more diversification than ever before. New structural challenges must be adapted because of dramatic changes in the way business is evolvng. These new skills must represent a brokerages organizational style and potential for advancement. The changes in this business environment are quick and volatile, and wreck havoc on the competition, which is exactly what the migration from NAR-affilliation has done to the REALTOR® brand.

Hundreds of thousands of agents can say and have said "no" to NAR.

Reviewing the problem in terms of existing NAR policy is easy if NAR doesn't work for the agent any longer and only appears to work for the politician. And, in fact, politicians that NAR members don't care to support with their dues by virtue of mandated political contributions called for by the new NAR Political Party Survival Initiative assessment and dues increase.

Good brokers want to solve problems by directing their sales associates in a manner which gives them the courage to find the answers they need. These same brokers will seek out and implement solutions that enhance their enjoyment when they see their agents become successful.

Posted by David Saks ((retired)) about 8 years ago

I wonder if they've been good at delivering failure and contempt in view of the hundreds of thousands of  recent NAR resignations, Mike ?

Posted by David Saks ((retired)) about 8 years ago

I would love to see NAR serve its members better than it does.  We pay very high dues and yet, there is a charge for just about everything else NAR offers.  The worst part is selling back leads.... It would be great if they set up something like AR where licensee could post referrals. 

Posted by Joan Whitebook, Consumer Focused Real Estate Services (BHG The Masiello Group) about 8 years ago

I suppose 300 thousand or so members who recently resigned would as well, Joan. AR has a referral network and you'll have to do a little research. Thanks for stopping by. Hope you have a great week ahead.

Posted by David Saks ((retired)) about 8 years ago

NAR has always had its ups and downs in membership, goes with the cycle of real estate. When the boom time comes those agents will be back (maybe). Most brokerages require licensees to be members of NAR and to pay their dues. I agree that no member of NAR should be required to pay PAC money--that should be voluntary and not a condition of membership.

Thank you for your comment on the anti-trust lawsuit. David, you are a wealth of information--I always learn something from your posts. Have a great week.

Posted by Pamela Seley, Residential Real Estate Agent serving SW RivCo CA (West Coast Realty Division) about 8 years ago

When the boom time comes back those agents will be dead, Pamela.

Posted by David Saks ((retired)) about 8 years ago

ps...:"boom time" the last time was a bunch of phoney appraisal time for the nations property assessors.

Posted by David Saks ((retired)) about 8 years ago

there’s nothing of any importance in life—except how well you do your work. Nothing. Only that. Whatever else you are, will come from that. It’s the only measure of human value. All the codes of ethics they’ll try to ram down your throat are just so much paper money put out by swindlers to fleece people of their virtues. The code of competence is the only system of morality that’s on a gold standard.

Atlas Shrugged (Centennial Edition), Ayn Rand

Hmmm, a little deep but if you have the ability to think through this I think it is both liberating and provocative. Personally I have little respect for those who tout their righteous behavior. Sorry, but I are (sic) a Realtor and only have the acknowledged sin of competing. Sometimes competing is not perceived as nice. Are we here to make nice or compete? Who then judges?

I know precious few who understand the reality of a principled practice based on a moral and ethic code. Perhaps we should live it and let someone else ascribe that quality. 

Are you ethical? Why?

Posted by Larry about 8 years ago

Ayn Rand is full of bullshit, Larry, in this case. Family is more important than how you do your work,Your relationship with your place of worship is more important than how you do your work. The maintenance of your neighborhood is more important than how you do your work. The way you get along with and wotk with others is more important than how you do your work. How you recognize the value in the most vital components of your life is more important than how you do your work. Staying healthy is infinitely more important than how you do your work.

Who was Ayn Rand working for ? HERSELF ?

If you do your work well and you stack boxes for a living, then boxes will get stacked well; but that doesn;t mean that your wife and children still don't think your a jackass.

Posted by David Saks ((retired)) about 8 years ago


I have no disagreement with the proposition you make. 

My take on the writing was that IF one is committed to work and competency then the critical components of life have an enhanced consequence.

Note the point made - "Whatever else you are, will come from that." 



Posted by Larry about 8 years ago

Groovy, Larry. That's heavy jive we can all relate too.

Posted by David Saks ((retired)) about 8 years ago

David.  I  agree with# 21& #35 ..It is the same here in Philadelphia .No Dues paid MLS shut OFF..  In today's economy it would be nice if dues were lowered instead of raised . Their hands are deep in our pockets . I know they do good but really there are dues for everything...

Realtor.com  I like the remarks about that too

Too many hand in my pockets

Posted by Hannah Williams, Expertise NE Philadelphia & Bucks 215-953-8818 (Re/Max Eastern inc.) about 8 years ago

I chat with pros every day who believe that NAR has enough cost-effective, non-affiliated competition to be useful any longer, Hannah, and forces political contributions under penalty of suspension or revocation of membership privileges, which, apparently to many by now, are privileges that mean nothing and are few. A political organization and a professional organization are two different entities. NAR appears to have become the former to many. Real estate agents need all the help they can get making an honest living and sound economic decisions in a dangerous economic climate. They don't need to be fleeced for campaign contributions or billed for high rolling lobbyists. Taxpayers pay the salaries of politicians. Real estate professionals shouldn't be billed twice.

Posted by David Saks ((retired)) about 8 years ago

I like your answer ..I am sick of so many factions having their hands in my pockets..MLS fees i understand ..but every time I turn around there is another/more dues due

Posted by Hannah Williams, Expertise NE Philadelphia & Bucks 215-953-8818 (Re/Max Eastern inc.) about 8 years ago

To revisit this from my OWN perspective, in order to maintain my CPM * Certified Property Manager * designation, which is expensive to obtain and VERY expensive to maintain, I have to be a member of NAR.

I can join our state's LARGEST association as an ASSOCIATE with NO BENEFITS at a considerably reducted rate which I may do before next fall's local association dues billing.

Posted by Wallace S. Gibson, CPM, LandlordWhisperer (Gibson Management Group, Ltd.) about 8 years ago

Sounds like a great move for you, Wallace. Real estate agents and other real estate professionals are fed up with NAR's nickle and diming them to death. I spoke with an agent two days ago who emphatically predicted that NAR will be extinct before the decade is up. It's not the first time I'd heard that prediction, but it was the sincerest and most convincing.

Posted by David Saks ((retired)) about 8 years ago

Hi David and all...

I am glad this got emailed to me. I hope NAR dries up and drifts away in the wind. They deserve it if for no other reason for what they did with realtor.com.

I am not a Realtor right now and have not been one since 2007.  When i was a Realtor, I had an active CRS, GRI, and ABR designations.

I left not because I wanted to...but because the STATE Board of Realtors forced me to.

In 2007 I joined a company that did all farm land and was not a member of NAR or any MLS.  I wanted to stay a Realtor and the broker was willing to join and pay dues.  He had 40 other agents OUTSIDE the MLS boundries I wanted to be in.  The state NAR (Nebraska Association of Realtors) said all 40 had to join if I wanted to stay in.  Why?  Because I might "might" share information with them.

NAR (national) and BCBR (local mls) were fine with just the broker and I joining.  Not the state.

What has it cost me since then?  I am not sure as all I concentrate on is farm land and equipment.

How have I benefitted from NOT being a member? 

     I get both sides of the transaction.

     I have not had to deal with unscrupulous Realtors including a couple who are currently on state probation for violations of state law (and Realtor guidelines). 

     I (happily) miss out on the big egos of some Realtors...and haven;t had to talk to them in years...which is almost worth it by itself!!

What do I miss out on? 

It is hard for me to sell a home in town with no lock box so I refer those to a Realtor. I miss out on the monthly luncheon. The weekly tour.  But I still have access to the actives through 40 different Realtor sites.

Perhaps the biggest thing I lose out on is access to the solds and withdrawn/expired info.  Except that now almost all of that type of info is becoming available on the county and city sites and agent sites.

So I guess I am okay with out NAR.  But that is just me.

Posted by Mike McCann - Nebraska Farm Land Broker, Farm Land For Sale 308-627-3700 or 800-241-3940 (Mike McCann - Broker, Mach1 Realty Farmland Broker-Auctioneer Serving Rural Nebraska) about 8 years ago

I agree with Mike Carlier.  NAR has lost its focus.  And, I detest paying its dues, but I don't have much choice either. 

This was one of the best posts I have ever read along with your and others' comments, it made for a great case AGAINST the NAR.  Thanks.

Posted by Don Sabinske, Sabinske & Associates Inc. (Don Sabinske, Sabinske & Associates Inc.) about 8 years ago

WOW...I'm pro NAR. I think that helps us to stand behind our code of ethics, but....you have brought up some valid points. i have to think on this one.

Posted by Debbie Laity, Your Real Estate Resource for Delta County, CO (Cedaredge Land Company) about 8 years ago

Mike, if realtors do nothing else they eat pretty damned well.

As you mentioned in your closing remarks concerning readily available info, the internet most everything any agent needs at little or no cost, and non nar-affiliated's can do exclusive office listings without cooperation, resign from NAR and save more money than they ever thought possible. 

Why get fleeced year after year for services that do little or nothing to improve your business ?

Referral brokerage is becoming extremely popular for agents who want to keep their licenses active without belonging to NAR.

I've heard agents predict that NAR will shut down within three to five years.

Even more startling is that many don't care. Nor would they miss NAR.

At the current rate of NAR resignations it looks like they're right on track.

Non-NAR brokers are cropping up all over the nation and agents are migrating towards them enmasse'.

I hope for your continued success.

Many thanks for your kind remarks and thoughtful input.

Posted by David Saks ((retired)) about 8 years ago

Don,  too many terrible things have happened to the economic stability of our nation and the real estate profession. Thousands of our colleagues have reached a conclusion that it's time for a change. Hence, hundreds of thousands of resignations. Many thanks for your comment.

Posted by David Saks ((retired)) about 8 years ago

Debbie, I hear the same annoying vociferation day after day after day about NAR and the code ethics (no offense). Not as often, because many are resigning, but frequently.

NAR's code of ethics has no precedence over the code of ethics established by your state's real estate commission or your brokerage.

It is not a legal document.

Common sense dictates that your business insight should guide you and motivate you based on the ideas of what is right and what is wrong.

If you are incapable of making that distinction based on the laws of your state you shouldn't be a real estate agent.

The continuing education requirements of your state will help you maintain a healthy relationship with the business.

A six page to eight page consolidated, cookie-cut tear-out sheet in a Realtor magazine for your safe keeping and perusal is no substitution for the real estate laws of your state.

Read the manual of your states real estate commission.

You can probably download one for nothing. Read it cover to cover.

The laws of your state are where the code of ethics reside.

Not in a hand out sheet from a pseudo-elitist political regime that violates anti-trust laws and restricts free trade.

Posted by David Saks ((retired)) about 8 years ago

Read an article some time ago that a number of large offfices in the Carolinas opted out of NAR because agents did not want to incur the cost of membership. Did not think it was wide spread.

Posted by Wayne Martin, Real Estate Broker - Retired (Wayne M Martin) about 8 years ago

Being Realtor or not being Realtor......where are the numbers?

How many licensed real estate agents are there across the U.S.? The last number I saw was 2.5 million some three years ago. 

How many NAR members? Currently that is 1 million plus or minus a few. 

The reality is roughly 40$ are Realtor; 60% are not. 

As a bit of trivia, the American Medical Association (AMA) has less than 30% of all medical doctors who are members. How many of us assume that the AMA is THE voice of all medical doctors? I certainly did until I discovered the truth. 

This is to take nothing away from the marketing efforts to position a membership organization as the voice of all in the profession. Nice job achieving that but reality is they are not representative voices. A voice, yes.

The Real Estate Board of New York (REBNY) has somewhere over 10,000 members, is over 100 years old, has their own MLS, largest in NYC, but has NEVER been Realtor. There are many very successful and highly professional examples other than this one.

Here is an interesting question? If not Realtor, does that mean the 60% of all real estate agents are not ethical? Could we say that there are more Realtors who have been charged and convicted of illegal professional crimes than non-Realtor agents? We cannot argue that is because they have the majority of real estate agents......statiscally not true. Could we deduce that perhaps claiming a code of ethics is not the rallying cause for being Realtor? 

It is a big world out there. I refuse to exist in a manipulated world of false information. Each has to find their own truth.




Posted by Larry about 8 years ago

They may have started a trend in the Carolinas, and the rest of the nation, Wayne.

Posted by David Saks ((retired)) about 8 years ago

Perhaps if NAR had it's way, Larry, charges of ethical violations would be faced by every non-nar affiliated licensed agent for not being a member.

Is NAR using code of ethics malarky to make professionals feel guilty about not subscribing to a second set of ethics that echo the common-sense ethics of any states real estate commission ?

The manual of any states real estate commission should guide a licensee.

There's nothing in the law of any state in this nation that requires anyone to belong to NAR.

Maybe if NAR had it's way that would change. 

NAR's next step might be to have legislation changed like it was for mortgage banking which now requires licensure and the registration of every mortgage professional into a national database.

NAR would probably like to see legislation passed declaring it a national registry requiring all licensed real estate agents to join by federal law.

Makes sense now that NAR's agenda is openly political.

In a strange way, that's amost the situation here because the Memphis Area Association of Realtors requires any licensee that has her or her license held by a brokerage that belongs to MAAR and NAR to also belong to MAAR, or that brokerage faces termination of it's membership with NAR and MAAR.

Obviously, these licensees have no choice other than to comply or seek non-affiliation.

Could the licensee file an EEOC complaint ?

Is this the inquistition ? Has Torquemada been reincarnated and now works for NAR ?

The Inquisition


Posted by David Saks ((retired)) about 8 years ago

It is just my opinion that by quitting NAR... many Realtors are showing that they are very frustrated with so many things, and quitting NAR is one of the few waus they can take out their frustration.

Posted by Carolyn Kolba, Keller Williams Realty- Mentor, Ohio (Serving Mentor, and all of Lake County, Ohio) about 8 years ago

The NAR did not help its image or ours when they lied about the number of sales.

Posted by Tim Lorenz, 949 874-2247 (TIM LORENZ - Elite Home Sales Team) about 8 years ago

David, you have no argument from me here on your comment # 37.  Phoney appraisals led to inflated real estate values. 

Posted by Pamela Seley, Residential Real Estate Agent serving SW RivCo CA (West Coast Realty Division) about 8 years ago

The reasons that I hear most often are that NAR fleeces members for fees, provides little in return, and mandates or forces the use of their mls products under penalty of suspension or revocation of membership, Carolyn, or worse, requires that an agent sign a document stating that the agent will not sell residential real estate if that agent doesn't use the NAR-affiliated mls in their region.

Cost-effective, trade-friendly alternatives to NAR have become the new way for many.

Posted by David Saks ((retired)) about 8 years ago

That's dirty pool, Tim, and a broken cue stick. More reasons to fire NAR.

Posted by David Saks ((retired)) about 8 years ago

I think that they might have, Pamela, and it upset a few people.

Posted by David Saks ((retired)) about 8 years ago

What Fred Griffin said.

Posted by Lenn Harley, Real Estate Broker - Virginia & Maryland (Lenn Harley, Homefinders.com, MD & VA Homes and Real Estate) about 8 years ago

Fred's an honest man, Lynn. I'd treat him to pizza.

Posted by David Saks ((retired)) about 8 years ago

I have been questioning the value of NAR for a while now.  This discussion just brings to light all the concerns I have had for quite a while.  Do we need them and what good is a Code if no one pays any attention to it.  State Laws govern our actual behavior and are sometimes in conflict with the Code.  I have to agree, it may be time for NAR to go away. They don't protect us or help us, they have become a political organization lobbying the govenment with out money whether we agree with their efforts or not. 

Posted by Sandra Paulow, REALTOR, Associate Broker, GRI, SFR (Aspen Properties, Inc. ) about 8 years ago

I don't need NAR, Sandra. NAR's become a burden to many agents who are struggling to earn a living. We have laws to protect us and legislators who author the bills to protect all licensees. Not just NAR members. These aren't paid legislators who lobby with dues money to get bills passed to accomodate a "for profit agenda" by a national clearinghouse for real estate products that in some cases are forced on members, and members who face suspension or revocation of membership if those products aren't used or purchased. Do NAR members think that they're elitists and believe that their better than non-NAR members with their luncheons, their paid-for designations, their political contributions, and their puffing about how much better they are than non realtors ? That's crap. NAR's become a waste of my money and time. I've reviewed many real estate fraud cases where NAR members have been involved. I encourage agents to attend meetings of their real estate commissions and download copies of real estate commission manuals. Make those manuals the bible for the business. Why should any licensee be forced to join NAR if they don't want to join NAR, even if the brokerage that's hired that agent as an independant contractor is a NAR member ? I've met and spoken at length with many real estate pros who are disgusted with NAR, including officers of state and local Realtor boards who believe that NAR's become a filching pain in the neck. NAR's "code" is generic sampling of state legislation already in effect by real estate commissions throughout this nation. You don't have to pay for the state manual, just abide by it, because it comes with the hard work and effort you engaged in to become a licensed real estate professional. Non-affiliation will gain the lead.

Posted by David Saks ((retired)) about 8 years ago

ps...where does it state in any real estate commission manual that you have to join NAR ?

Posted by David Saks ((retired)) about 8 years ago

"The move towards non-affiliation is a start for thousands of agents in this day and age. "

David, you've made a lot of references to options outside of NAR affiliation but I don't see any specifics. I'm more than interested in finding an alternative after trying to sell my own home last spring and getting frustrated with the lack of options out there for sellers seeking alternative representaton.

NAR may have originally been set up to provide legal and ethical standards for real estate transactions. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Now however it's become a monopoly that controls all real estate transactions by virtue of demanding fees to gain access to MLS boards. The MLS has become the 100 lb gorilla nationally.

I'm not sure ethics and profits are a good marriage for anyone.

Posted by Tessa Skeens, Staging For Realtors, Builders & Investors (Hampton ReDesign, Home Staging and Redesign ) about 8 years ago

Tessa, try #'s 9,14, 15. 18, 22, 24, 26, 31, 43, 50, 52, 56, 60, 66 for specifics.

If that doesn't provide you with some satisfactory answers perhaps we could look at more refined details rather than a generalized discussion regarding particulars that may affect your needs.

These propositions and points may assert some things, but not all, about the migration towards non-affiliation.

A number of independent mls' have surfaced, challenged local nar affiliated boards that have attempted to suppress them, and have won.

Do realtors tell you that their fees are negotiable ?

Has a realtor ever offered to point you in the direction of doing a FSBO ?

Do they offer legal advice knowing full well that they're not supposed to ?

Has a realtor ever professed to know anything about zoning issues with you ?

Aren't you sick and tired of cookie cutter websites that are more advertising for the hosting service than listings for the subscriber ?

How many realtors can keep their mouths shut when faced with facilitator or designated agency status if the buyers agent of listing agent are from the same brokerage ?

And who are they really working for ?

And it never fails that just about every open house that I've ever been to, if hosted by a realtor , turns into a networking party and realtor bash.

And now the recent dues increase a mandatory political contribution to the Realtor Party political survival initiative if you belong to NAR.

I think that's specific enough for thousands of agents to say no to NAR.

Thanks for your consideration.

Posted by David Saks ((retired)) about 8 years ago

It will be interesting to see how this all shakes out. Our business is certainly evolving and capitalism will probably prevail. Great thought provoking comments with my morning coffee.

Posted by Richard and Jean Murphy, (207) 712-4796 (Harborview Properties) about 8 years ago

I believe in the NAR Code of Ethics, but have been continually disappointed that they have used my money to develop products and services that I have to pay more money to use (Sentrilock anyone?  In my opinion, it is far inferior to Supra, yet we have switched over in my market).

I pay them to lobby for things that I don't always agree with them about.

That said, in order to belong to the MLS, I must be a member of NAR and VAR (Virginia).  Until that changes, I will always be a Realtor.

People may be leaving NAR in droves, but in my area, if you are leaving NAR, you are leaving the business...its the economy that is driving the resignations.

Posted by Holly Weatherwax, A Great Real Estate Experience ( Associate Broker, Momentum Realty) about 8 years ago

Am I or you more ethical because we Realtors? Do I have more business because I am a Realtor?  I doubt it because, as some already said, most lay people do not know the difference bewteen Realtor and real estate agent. Nice discussion here.

Posted by Gary L. Waters Broker Associate, Bucci Realty, Fifteen Years Experience in Brevard County (Bucci Realty, Inc.) almost 8 years ago

Politics, NAR is a political machine with a politcal action committee. Plenty of members to throw their weight around in Washington DC. NAR has pushed for years for homeownership for ALL. They pay lobbyist to sway votes related to the mortgage business. NAR has a share of responsibility for what has happened in the markets. Just like Unions, not eveyone paying dues agrees with some of the politics and agenda NAR maintains and pushes for. If my MLS did not require it I would drop it in a minute after 35 years of paying my dues. 

Posted by Chris Miller Nevada Land with Water Rights, Land with Water Rights For Sale (Vegas Grand Realty and Property Management) almost 8 years ago

Just found this and have to say Fred mentioned some of my problems with NAR in comment number 10. I used to donate money and time to RPAC, the local association and NAR. I will pay my dues as required to keep access to the MLS. Otherwise they will never get another extra penny from me..

No more drinking the Kool Aid for me...

Posted by Mark Brian, Anderson SC Realtor (Silver Star Real Estate LLC) almost 8 years ago

These posts really surprised me. I didn't realize that there were so many agents that were not members of NAR and so many that were unhappy with them.  In my corner of the world, all the agents, at least that I know of are Realtors. Maybe that is because there is no choice. To be a member of an mls, we need to be a member of the board, and there is no way to do business without MLS. 

I think the economy has more to do with the dwindling numbers of MAR membership than anything else. 

I believe that NAR lobbies on our behalf.  I like that they promote home ownership and that it is important to have politicians in office that support home ownership.  I'll admit, that the fees are quite high, but if they can help keep something in place like the mortgage tax deduction by supporting those in office that will vote to keep it in place, it is worth it. Our industry seems to be dissolving more over the years, I think it is important to be strong together as a group. 


Posted by Donna Quinlan, Keller Williams Real Estate Agent Career Consultan (Keller Williams Realty) almost 8 years ago

Some predict that NAR will lose out to non affiliation in short order because it burdens the membership with needless fee assessments and little to show for, while passing the buck down to political campaigns and tossing a buck of your money here and there to candidates members don't support, Richard, Jean, while at the same time appearing to do penance by throwing a dime of the members money here and there to blighted neighborhoods. A massive increase in dues cost NAR lots of members.

Posted by David Saks ((retired)) almost 8 years ago

Holly, the real estate handbook for each state's respective state real estate commission doesn't cost anything and is the original code of ethics that every licensed real estate agent has to abide by. Some believe it's time to start calling themselves real estate agents and brokers again instead of Realtors. Where does it say in the handbook or your state's real estate laws that you have to be a Realtor ?

Posted by David Saks ((retired)) almost 8 years ago

It's a safe assumption, Gary, that no seller gives a damn whether or not one is a realtor or just a licensed agent as long as they get their property sold. I don't believe any of the malarky about the quality of a realtor vs a non realtor.

Posted by David Saks ((retired)) almost 8 years ago

As long as NAR can squander the campaing bucks on your dime it won't have to worry about lost revenue or paying taxes since the contributions aren't tax deductible, Chris. If NAR spent more time supporting members instead of the Realtor Political Party Initiative it wouldn't be facing a crippling membership loss blow like it has and will continue to do over the coming months. Hundreds of thousands have resigned and quit NAR and thousands more will quit in the days to come.

Posted by David Saks ((retired)) almost 8 years ago

I understand your concerns, Mark, and believe that NAR's political agenda is trashing the membership roll.

Posted by David Saks ((retired)) almost 8 years ago

NAR does nothing, and has never done anything for me, Donna, but take my money. I want to put an end to it.

I think you've expressed a major reason why hundreds of thousands told NAR to shove it when you said:

"In my corner of the world all the agents, at least that I know of are Realtors. Maybe that is because

there is no choice."

Isn't the restriction of choice in commerce also a restriction of fair trade and a violation of anti-trust laws ?

Does NAR give you the choice or a ballot to choose from which political candidates to give your dues money to ?

NO !

Posted by David Saks ((retired)) almost 8 years ago


 I'm not sure of all of the reasons but I'm sure a big one for the drop off of NAR members has to do with the state of our economy from 2006 until now. Many Realtors have left the field completely for "full-time jobs" and I'd imagine that a good number of the ones who left NAR might be in this category. Either way, great post. Definitely something worth thinking about.

Posted by Jim Brooks (Highrises & Condos by The Brooks Team) almost 8 years ago

So what has NAR done for you lately?  Have you completely withdrawn?

Posted by John F Muscarella, Broker/Owner, Venice, FL, Florida's Suncoast (RIVER FARM PROPERTIES, LLC) almost 8 years ago

Thanks for your comment, Jim. Being a real estate agent is an impractical, half-baked idea if houses can't be sold and paltry commissions have to be split with a broker who does nothing but exploit salespeople and sits on his ass all day and complains.

Posted by David Saks ((retired)) almost 8 years ago

If I had withdrawn I wouldn't care about NAR, John.

It looks like it's getting easier for many real estate pros to care less about NAR because of the huge wave of resignations and migration to unaffiliated brokerages, brokerages that have totally divested, stripped and ended their relationship with NAR, and created their own MLS products.

The only thing NAR has done for me is take money for a magazine subscription with dwindling page content, fewer issues and readers following a major dues hike to recover millions in lost revenue because of members who quit and legal fees, and prevent me from seliing residential real estate for refusing to use NAR-affiliated mls products with a document called the "Declaration of non-engagement" if you refuse to use the board mls within their area, even though competing, better and less costly mls options are available.

What has NAR done for you ?

Provide free croissants and coffee at the latest "for annual fee" new needless-designation rally ?

What doesn't the law of your state real estate commission fail to provide that NAR provides ?

Does the Massachusetts Real Estate Commission or the Deprtment of Insurance and Commerce in your state mandate a portion of your licensing fees to their choice for Republican, Democrat, gubernatorial, senate or congressional campaigns so their employees can keep their jobs and pass bills favoring housing agendas that don't stand for all licensees or homeowners interests ?

I don't think so.

Posted by David Saks ((retired)) almost 8 years ago

No, there is no restraint of trade here there is just a total disconnect between NAR & the membership. Great post & I am still PO'd over the railroading dues increase we had for lobbying.  Every year more & more agents ask what are the benefits.

Please see my post today on what they are up to.

#75 Are you really kidding me? You had no idea?


Posted by Lyn Sims, Schaumburg Real Estate (RE/MAX Suburban) almost 8 years ago


What is the role of NAR in 2012? Are they filling that role? Or have they lost focus of the needs of the membership?

Over 50% of the licensees in the country are non-Realtor.

Good luck and success.

Lou Ludwig


Posted by Lou Ludwig, Designations Earned CRB, CRS, CIPS, GRI, SRES, TRC (Ludwig & Associates) almost 8 years ago

I was having coffee with one of our university professors earlier today who remarked that "referring to a real estate agent as a "Realtor" is a polite way of saying that the individual is a scantily  paid son of a bitch working as a home tour guide for some greed-driven broker that exploits salespeople and screws distressed homeowners", Lou.

How would you respond to that ?

Posted by David Saks ((retired)) almost 8 years ago

The role of NAR is to cash in on needless continuing education fees so they can to recover the lost money they had to shell out in litigation fees because of the anti trust lawsuit with the Department of Justice, Lyn, and persuade local boards to force their agents to use their mls products and find ways to prevent agents from selling residential real estate if they refuse to use those products.

Posted by David Saks ((retired)) almost 8 years ago

At this time, I am with a firm that is not a member of the NAR or local affiliates.  Last January, I was with a firm that was a member of the NAR (including the local and state chapters).  The dues I had to pay was $495.00 ($143 to the local chapter, $197 to the state chapter, and $155 to the NAR).  This was mandatory with that firm.  In February 2012, do to a number of circumstances, I had to withdraw from that firm, and was out of the profession until June 2012.  My new firm is not a member of the NAR.  When I called the local board to see about a refund, they said no refunds, since the money was alreaday disbursed.  Fortunately, in the northwest we have an independent MLS.

Posted by Bob Marshall (Home Smart Ion Real Estate) over 7 years ago

Well, it is complecated...

But I loved the video. Have a great weekend.

Posted by Tatyana Makarov, Your Greater Hartford Area Realtor (Coldwell Banker Residential Brokerage) over 7 years ago

Many believe that NAR has become, and is, a burden to the profession, now, Bob.

Posted by David Saks ((retired)) over 7 years ago

Thanks for your note, Tatyana, and likewise for a fine weekend.

Posted by David Saks ((retired)) over 7 years ago
NAR supports its members and works to protect our right to transfer real property! If not the Realtor then Who!! We must Lead and Work to make the organization stronger!! How about spending time bring about change in your locals association! You could make a difference.
Posted by Michael Ford, Matching Families with Homes (Coldwell Banker Heritage Homes) over 7 years ago

Do you also believe that real estate licensees who work in small communities with real estate brokerages that belong to NAR should be forced to join NAR and state or regional NAR affiliated boards if there are no NAR-free brokerages around for them to hang their licenses with, Michael ?

Do you also believe that real estate licensees should be required to use the MLS's of NAR-affiliated boards even if they have other choices for marketing their listings and be required to sign documents stating that they'll not sell or list residential real estate within the geographical jurisdiction of that NAR-affiliated board if they refuse to use the same NAR board's multiple listing service product ?

Do you believe that agents should be restricted from having the choice of whether or not they want to belong to NAR ? 

What isn't in your state real estate commission's handbook of rules and regulations that's not echoed by NAR's code of ethics ?

Your real estate commission also protects real estate licensees, and, believe it or not, even protects the consumer from real estate fraud.

Is there anything in the real estate laws of your state that mandates your membership in NAR ?

I sincerely doubt it.

If there were more than one multiple listing service in your community to choose from, or you decided that you wanted to retain your listings exclusively, but were told by your NAR board that all members must use their multiple listing product or rescind the right to sell residential real estate within that boards jurisdiction, do you not believe that such an action restricts trade when you have a license from your state which allows you to represent and market real property ?

Real estate broker-affiliates are not real estate brokers.

Affiliate-brokers cannot open brokerages.

Real estate affiliates must work for brokers until they've completed the necessary requirements to become brokers.

Until that time many agents only have NAR-affiliated brokerages in which to work for in their communities or they're restricted from exercising the privileges of their licenses.

Should those same NAR affiliated brokerages be required to force their agents to join NAR or NAR-affiliated boards or risk losing their NAR affiliation ?

How does NAR support it's members by raising the dues during a recession ?

Sounds like the hundreds of thousands of members that have resigned recently have answered the last question, Michael ?

Posted by David Saks ((retired)) over 7 years ago

What else do you expect from a trade group that encourages it's membership base to believe everything that the loan servicer tells them without questions? 

When it comes to conducting short sales, Realtor/members are instructed to find the identity of the "lender" so that they can properly calculate payoff, closing costs, escrow calculations and net to seller (if any.) 

But servicers don't own loans and MERS is on record as being the mortgagee. Plus, loan servicers have been known to lie to consumers in order to generate more foreclosures, so how does a "Realtor" find the true identity of the lender & obtain loan payoff amounts if the real lender is hidden?

Why hasn't the NAR screamed from the top of their lungs about it on Capitol Hill? These are the "experts" rights? This flies directly in the face of NAR's own mandatory code of ethics which state:

Article 1

"Protecting and promoting the interests of the client & an obligation to the client is a primary interest."

Article 2 

"Must avoid exaggeration, misrepresentation or concealment of pertinent facts about the property or the transaction."

For the NAR to worry about a drop in resale price (due to selling bulk REO's to Chinese groups of investors) and neglect the real concerns for the market, their members and the consumers they pretend to protect is a HUGE dis-service to this nation.

Posted by stopGOVTwaste over 7 years ago

StopGOV, MERS has been accused of being a phony beneficiary and absolved.

Cervantes v. Countrywide Home Loans Inc. (United States District Court, District of Arizona)

On September 24, 2009, the U.S. District Court for the District of Arizona, Cervantes v. Countrywide Home Loans, Inc., et al., dismissed all federal and state law claims made by three borrowers in a complaint filed against a group of defendants which included MERS. Wrongful foreclosure was also alleged.

The court considered whether or not MERS was a proper beneficiary and whether or not its involvement was fraud targeting borrowers. The court found that the use of MERS was not fraudulent, and also found that "Plaintiffs have failed to allege what effect, if any, listing the MERS system as a 'sham' beneficiary on the deed of trust had upon their obligations as borrowers."

The U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit upheld the trial court in favor of MERS in an opinion filed September 7, 2011.

Cervantes v. Countrywide Home Loans, Inc., 656 F.3d 1034, 1041 (9th Cir. 2011).

Thanks for commenting.

Posted by David Saks ((retired)) over 7 years ago

I have been a long term member of the National Association of Realtors.

I feel that being a member does give us credibility that we may no other wise have.

Posted by Ginger Harper, Your Southport~Oak Island Agent~Brunswick County! (Coldwell Banker Sea Coast Advantage) over 7 years ago

Are we a bit immodest, Ginger ?

There are tens of thousands of licensed real estate agents and brokers who don't belong to NAR, who refuse to belong to NAR, who also happen to unquestionably possess the essential and distinguishing attributes of honesty, integrity and credibility. 

Any organiztion that robs you of the freedom to exercise your right to perform the responsibility of your licensure, or any NAR affiliated principal brokerage that requires you to become a member, or restricts you from selling residential real estate within the demographics of the mls simply because you refuse to use a NAR affiliated board's multiple listing service product, especially when non affiliated products exist, lacks credibility.

Maybe you'll get a gold watch one day for your loyalty along with your magazine subscription, but remember that the thousands of dollars of wasted dues, realtor party political survival initiative fee assessments and other ridiculous increases and charges paid for it.

NAR is a bully and has been kicked to the curb by frustrated members who get little in return for the money they spend, just like the millions of foreclosed families in this nation did when NAR thought it was the last word in the business at a time when those same families trusted the opinions of NAR members.

I took the realtor license plate off of my car months ago because I've had filthy language shouted at me by passing motorists and my car vandalized because of it.

I stopped by a local restaurant for lunch a few months ago and a man poured a drink on the seat of my car through the window because he despises real estate agents.

He ran off shouting obscenities screaming loudly that he hated realtors.

It's going to take a lot of work to restore the confidence of thousands of licensed real estate professionals, and the nation.

Posted by David Saks ((retired)) over 7 years ago
NRA protects our industry and private property rights on a local, state and national level. Who else does that for us? Are they perfect? No, but neither are we!! You can get involved and make an difference. Only Real Estate Professional I know who do not support NAR it's states and locals are the ones who complain but never act. it' the mirror test. Everyone should try it out sometime..
Posted by Michael Ford, Matching Families with Homes (Coldwell Banker Heritage Homes) over 7 years ago

Respectfully, that's pure unadulterated malarky, Michael !

You said, "NRA (I think you mean NAR and not the National Rifle Association) protects our industry and private property rights on a local, state and national level. "

Cite one instance where NAR has defended a homeowner in foreclosure or had become involved in an imminent domain or title challenge.

Title insurance protects your property rights as do the bundle of legal rights.

Here's a reminder for you just in case you forgot:

  • the right of possession - the property is owned by whomever holds title;
  • the right of control - within the laws, the owner controls the use of the property;
  • the right of exclusion - others can be excluded from using or entering the property;
  • the right of enjoyment - the owner can enjoy the use of the property in any legal manner; and
  • the right of disposition - the title holder can sell, rent or transfer ownership or use of the property at will

They're legal rights.

Not rights protected or established by NAR.

Ownership of land is holding "title" to it.

The evidence of that title is the deed.

The seller executes a deed to transfer title to real property and the bundle of rights that go with it.

Nothing about NAR is legislated by your state real estate commission, nor is it mandated by any legislative body that you must become a realtor.

The realtor brand covets a phony kind of psuedo-legislative deameanor that's repulsive and offensive to the non-NAR affiliated licensed community of real estate professionals who are burdened by NAR affilliated boards that force member brokerages to hire only agents that agree to pay exorbitant, unnecessary fees to those boards and use their MLS products while they clearly have reasonable, cost-efficient, better choices.


NAR is interested in pushing politics and web sales.

NAR has a Land Use, Property Rights and Environment Committee, but it's a lobbying effort at the national level and does nothing for the little guy when it gets right down to the neighborhood when it's time to challenge an HOA or stop the families home on the corner from being turned into a playground or torn down for the new interstate highway. 

NAR is generic steam, bullying, huffing and puffing their own agenda and increasing dues to recoup millions in lost legal defense funds because NAR decision makers made decisions on behalf of the million members that forced the Department of Justice to take punitive action.

Your comment "Only Real Estate Professional I know who do not support NAR it's states and locals are the ones who complain" is absolute BS.

NAR-affiliated boards address grievances every single day about procuring cause issues, expiration of listing challenges, commission contravention, counter-bid miscommunications, unethical behavior accusations, and other grievances that state real estate commissions avoid like the plague.

Brokerages that have nothing to do with NAR are springing up all over the nation and beat the devil out of NAR affiliated companies. Non-NAR brokerages exceeed and excel with sales and new opportunities for licensees who are tired of the restrictions that NAR affiliated brokerages impose.

Here's one that decimated the competition in a city with thousands of agents:

Click Here

I'm one person.

I can't fight the dragon alone.

But a nation of oppressed, poorly paid, exploited real estate professionals can.

Each brokerage in this nation should look at both sides, establish the controls that are essential to stand by the laws of the real estate commissions of their respective states, allow agents the right to choose the products they use to conduct business and under no circumstances restrict them from exercising the rights and privileges granted by their licensure if they refuse to use NAR products if they have other choices.

Did the mirror crack for you, MIchael ?

It did for NAR because the last seven years have been bad luck for NAR with thousands of NAR resignations, the DOJ anti-trust investigation, and the Realtor Party Political Survival Initiative which has questionable meaning to thousand who told NAR to shove it.

Posted by David Saks ((retired)) over 7 years ago

David I agree with your post whole heartedly and you deserve kudos for posting this.  NAR members are nothing more than customers to this organization as of late and NAR is totally out of touch to the needs of their struggling members.  My pet beef is the fact that NAR gave lifetime rights to use of the name Realtor.Com to a for profit outside company who is constantly soliciting Realtors to pay them exorbanant fees to put their name and contact information on their own listings. The public has no clue that Realtor.com is not run by NAR.  This speaks volumes.  NAR should be ashamed.

Posted by Brenda Abide (Weichert Realtors Benchmark) over 7 years ago

Thank you, Brenda. I'm honored by your comment.

First National Realty, Inc. is the standard of excellence for this nations real estate professionals.

I greatly admire your company and your credentials. It is my hope for your continued success, always.

Posted by David Saks ((retired)) over 7 years ago

I have always avoided NAR Brokerages in the Past. Here in the Tri CIties you have to belong to NAR to get in the MLS and I do believe that is wrong. I live here and can't really put the energy into the figth when I have so many other things to do. I agree that most of the public doesn't differentiate between agend and Realtor. If someone has to have ethics explained to them then there is no board that can make them behave ethically.  Just my two cents

Posted by Sharon Denning, Marketing that gets it SOLD (Momentum Marketing) over 7 years ago

Your 2nd sentence is the coup de grâce, Jackson.

Posted by David Saks ((retired)) over 7 years ago

Many licensees feel the same as you, Sharon, and want change in the industry. It's time has arrived.

The public will make those distinctions one day and hold the title "real estate agent" or "real estate licensee" above that of Realtor when they realize that the laws of your state real estate commission have more meaning than the NAR code of ethics that germinates from them; the same state laws of which you are legally bound by your licensure, including the laws of agency. disclosure, escrow, etc.

Thanks for your comment.

Posted by David Saks ((retired)) over 7 years ago

I have been a member of NAR for almost 30 years.  The thing I most resent is that it collects fees from me to support issues and candidates that seldom support. NAR has become a business….a big business.  It would be nice if I believed that NAR existed to improve our reputation as an industry and to monitor unethical and even illegal activity by Realtors, I really stopped believing that years ago. Why can’t we just have State and Local Boards to set educational standards and to monitor ethic’s complaints? 

Posted by Linda Calvert (Welcome Home Realty) over 7 years ago

Many good points brought up throughout all of the comments. The first thing that came to mind for me was simply that as a consumer or potential home buyer I don't care if the realtor is part of the association. I don't know about the association as a consumer and what the benefits are to me. Now maybe there are some great perks to being a member as a realtor but unless the organization is providing some great value I don't know how any realtor would capitalize on being a member of the organization.

Posted by Lester Muranaka, 360 Mortgage Group, LLC - NMLS # 155922 (360 Mortgage Group, LLC - NMLS 155922) over 7 years ago

The Monopolists control the Lockbox Keys and the MLS. 

I cannot belong to my Local Board without paying these Extortionists.

Posted by Fred Griffin Tallahassee Real Estate, Licensed Florida Real Estate Broker (Fred Griffin Real Estate) over 7 years ago

State real estate commissions mandate educational requirements. When an unscrupulous brokerage comingles escrow real estate commissions work on the ethics side of things as well at the legislative and judicial level. Revocation or suspension of any licensee says a lot about ethics. Thanks for your thoughts, Linda.

Posted by David Saks ((retired)) over 7 years ago

Why should any licensee ever be required by their host broker to join any organization or be denied the right to exercise the privileges of their license if they refuse to join that organization or use that same organizations products, Flagship ? There is nothing in the real estate laws of this nation that mandate that you're required to become a realtor, nor is there anything in the law that states that your right to exercise the privileges granted by your license would be restricted or revoked if you refuse to become a realtor. How can any brokerage deny your services as an independant contractor if you refuse to become a realtor ? Why are there still brokerages that are inexorable about assimilation and NAR membership ? Why are so many resigning and cancelling their realtor affiliations ? The answer to the last question is about freedom of choice. Thanks for your comments.

Posted by David Saks ((retired)) over 7 years ago

Fred, your note is a nice surprise, and you can really hurl a damned fast ball.

It's a great challenge and opened a pandoras box.

What option would any licensee have, if they're not a realtor, to use any lockbox system if there isn't a non affiliated brokerage that has an agreement with a lockbox system corporation, or any lockbox entity, that's realtor-controlled ?

And could any lockbox company be violating fair trade laws by denying a non realtor access to a proprietary, realtor-controlled lockbox system ?

Must one be a realtor to have access to realtor-controlled mls' and entry systems ?

Great comment, Fred.

Posted by David Saks ((retired)) over 7 years ago

I just listened to a voice mail from a hot shot Realtor.com salesman advising me that my listings do not have my name or number and he would like to talk to me about fixing that. HOW DARE the National Association of Realtors allow a for profit outside company like Move.Org to have the use of the name Realtor.com to hound their members for big monthly fees just to put the members own name and number on their own listings.  This is insane!  To NAR their members are nothing but "CUSTOMERS,"  NAR does absolutely ZERO for their members but take their money and the organization itself has NO ETHICS for treating their members like this.  I for one get better treatment from Trulia and Zillow and as far as my listings are concerned.  Furthermore, if given a choice most members would opt out of NAR.  Practically every agent I knows resents paying the huge quarter fees they pay NAR for absolutely nothing.  

Posted by Brenda Abide (Weichert Realtors Benchmark) over 7 years ago

A change is gonna come , Brenda, so the song goes.

The song

Posted by David Saks ((retired)) over 7 years ago

I look to see if something compliments or enhances my business plan and then make decisions. I am not impressed with CAR or NAR at this point. Furthermore, there is a movement underfoot to MAKE anyone whose license is under a Broker join up or that Broker has to let them go or terminate his affiliation. I don't like it and I am not alone either..good post

Posted by Richie Alan Naggar, agent & author (people first...then business Ran Right Realty ) about 7 years ago

I agree with Richie, if it doesn enhance our business, do we need it?  We don like having to belong to NAR.  Thanks for shairng post.

Posted by Edward & Celia Maddox, EXPERIENCE & INTEGRITY - WE TAKE THE HIGH ROAD (The Celtic Connection Realty) about 7 years ago
If one wants to facilitate change, one must get involved.
Posted by Carol Zingone, Global Realtor in Jax Beach, FL - ABR, CRS, CIPS (Berkshire Hathaway Home Services Florida Network Realty) about 7 years ago

Forcing anyone to use the products or services of NAR when they have other choices, i.e., a non alliliated mls, is the restriction of fair trade, Richie. I believe local boards and brokerages violate anti trust laws by doing so.

I wish that some great attorney, somewhere, anywhere, would come forward and challenge this outrage in our nations courts and defeat the practice of forcing agents to belong to NAR.

It' s ludicrous. It amazes me that it hasn't been struck down and that this egregious practice has been allowed to continue for so many, many years.

If the city of Memphis hired someone to be a parking meter reader could that person be forced to join the National Association of Parking Meter Readers, a private "support group" for parking meter readers, or lose their job ?

I thought that kind of illegitimate enterprise went away when the Sherman Act became a law.

Posted by David Saks ((retired)) about 7 years ago

Thank you for your good thoughts, Edward and Celia.

Posted by David Saks ((retired)) about 7 years ago

Agreed, Carol. 

Nothing in the laws of your state's real estate laws and overseen by your state's real estate commission mandates that you join NAR or be forced to use the NAR boards mls.

Forcing an agent to belong to NAR, when you begin your service with a brokerage, is no different than forcing you to drive a Volkswagon or you'll lose your right to drive if you refuse, when you'd prefer to drive another car.

Posted by David Saks ((retired)) about 7 years ago

David, same thing for me. I have to be a member in order to work. My wife and my son work with me so we are paying 3 dues.

YEs, I am a forced member. If I could have just MLS, I would leave NAR in a heartbeat

Posted by Jon Zolsky, Daytona Beach, FL, Buy Daytona condos for heavenly good prices (Daytona Condo Realty, 386-405-4408) about 7 years ago

Hundreds of thousands of real estate professionals feel the same way you do, Jon.

If you're a licensed agent and you work for a broker you're also an independant contractor and market your own listings unless your a paid employee of the brokerage.

If you're an independant contractor how can anyone force you to use or tell you what products to use when you market your listings...and in the same breath tell you that you can't sell residential real estate if you refuse to use their products or services when you have other, better, more economical choices for marketing your property ?

Why wasn't the NAR forced membership strategy smashed by a competent legal team years ago ?

Why is it still wrapping it's filthy tentacles around this nations real estate professionals ?

Posted by David Saks ((retired)) about 7 years ago

David I wonder about that too.  Our profession would be improved in so many ways had NAR been stopped from what they are doing.   If agents had a choice as to whether they wanted to join NAR or not I am positive NAR would be put out of business.

Posted by Brenda Abide (Weichert Realtors Benchmark) about 7 years ago

If NAR would relax the requirement forcing agents to join and give them the choice, since most agents serve as independent contractors for NAR affilitiated brokerages, it might improve NAR's credibility.

Shouldn't there be something in the NAR Code of Ethics about the restriction of fair trade and forcing an agent to join a politically motivated organization that also mandates dues for something called the Realtor Party Political Survival Initiative, whether agent members believe in NAR's political agenda or not, Brenda ?

Although I wouldn't want to put NAR out of business, I absolutely want NAR affiliated brokerages to give agents the choice whether or not they want to join NAR or be challenged in court whether or not it's fair to force anyone to join NAR at any level of affiliation with any brokerage.

I'm also asking these same brokerages and NAR not to restrict agents from listing residential real estate if they refuse to join NAR or use a NAR affiliated MLS product when they have other marketing choices and resources available to them.

The Memphis Area Association of Realtors has a document called the Declaration of Non Engagement which you are forced to sign if you refuse to use the MAAR mls.

The document restricts you from listing or selling residential real estate within the MAAR mls coverage.

Here's a link to it. Click The Declaration of Non Engagement

The FAQ's section answers this question:

I am engaged solely in commercial real estate, but my broker is a Participant in the MAAR MLS. Can I be waived from MLS fees?

Yes. You can be waived from paying MLS fees if you are engaged solely in commercial real estate and not engaged in the listing, selling, leasing or appraising of residential property,

Whether or not NAR restricts free trade and violates the anti trust laws of this nation should be considered once again by the court, and more so with all of the cheerleading going on about market recovery while millions of homes are still being served foreclosure notices and credit reporting agencies are being investiogated for deceptive business practices.

NAR's propaganda machine knows how to use a smokescreen.

With such an overwhelming, huge volume of disappointment with NAR in this blog entry, from agents all over our nation, it astonishes me that no one from NAR has challenged the forced membership charges ! 

Posted by David Saks ((retired)) about 7 years ago

We are a very small board pondering our future.  I am researching posts on active rain to see what other areas are doing.  Is there any national movement to challenge this at the convention?

Posted by Kathy Judy (Tri-Cities Real Estate retired) over 5 years ago

I don't don't know about a challenge, Kathy, but you might ask the 600 thousand-plus NAR members that resigned in recent years.

Posted by David Saks ((retired)) over 5 years ago

MLS and local boards should not require brokers to be a member of NAR. NAR has hijacked the real estate industry and is forcing members to fund political activties and pay fees to a corrupt organization that only cares about increase the numbers of members paying. If agents had a choice to join their local board and MLS without having to join NAR, I truly wonder if NAR would even exist. 

Posted by Not In Use over 5 years ago

Local boards violate anti-trust laws, Jackie, when they force licensed real estate professionals to join them or use their mls products when other products are available. The Memphis Area Association of Realtors uses a document called the "Declaration of Non-Engagement" which states that if you refuse to use thier mls product (at the cost of hundreds of dollars annually) you agree not to sell real estate within their jurisdiction. That appears to violate anti-trust laws by allocating a market. You're required to sign it. Also, if you hang your license with a NAR-affiliated board you're required to join NAR or refused affiliation with the host brokerage.

It's very corrupt and they've gotten away with it for many years.

Posted by David Saks ((retired)) over 5 years ago

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